Manu Della Valle Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Davejb said: Manu,,, Who wrote "SS STEEL", world famous collector ,author, dealer, you must know him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Della Valle Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 19 minutes ago, dagodave said: I have one of these helmets I purchased it from a very well know dealer (not here) with a guarantee for life. I have dealt with this man on many occasions and had been satisfied. When I received the helmet in which I paid a considerable sum I questioned the decal. I was told if it's ever proven to be a fake decal I would be compensated. During the time all this information was learned of I had contacted the dealer and was refused a refund. Stating some say it real some fake. Never buying another item from him again And the seller is...............? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major General Bil4338 Posted July 17, 2016 Major General Share Posted July 17, 2016 Manu, fill in the blanks.... K-l-y /H-c-s written loads of books on G-r-a- /h-l-e-s !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Della Valle Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Oh...THAT ONE...Kelly the Crook? Here...not a helmet but a "creative" description nonetrheless:http://www.ss-steel-inc.com/cloth_gallery_page_2.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred Karno's Army Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Is this a copyright issue or has it turned into the secret squirrel club . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Della Valle Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Fred Karno's Army said: Is this a copyright issue or has it turned into the secret squirrel club . Yep...if I say that GERARD STEZELBERGER is a CROOK and dito for BULL jobby I can put my money where my mouth is! No use saying "I bought this or that from a dealer who has ripped me off,but I won't buy from him again!" No danger of being sued here...who would spend thousands on NOTHING? Edited July 17, 2016 by Manu Della Valle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davejb Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Dagodave, if you have a written guarantee then he must abide with it, there is now documented proof that this Champagne Decal is a fake, and seeing its all over the collecting internet theres very little that anyone can say. However if it was a verbal guarantee then thats a little harder to get your money back, but it could still form a verbal contract and he knows full well that you could sue him. You paid him X amount of money in good faith and I daresay he sold it in the same vain but its now proved to be a fake decal , he is legally and morally obliged to refund your money and you return the helmet whether he likes it or not, I think that a lot of dealers in the same position are still reeling at the prospect of a huge monetary loss, but thats the chance you take when in this collecting business, especially high end items 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davejb Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Dagodave, if you have a written guarantee then he must abide with it, there is now documented proof that this Champagne Decal is a fake, and seeing its all over the collecting internet theres very little that anyone can say. However if it was a verbal guarantee then thats a little harder to get your money back, but it could still form a verbal contract and he knows full well that you could sue him. You paid him X amount of money in good faith and I daresay he sold it in the same vain but its now proved to be a fake decal , he is legally and morally obliged to refund your money and you return the helmet whether he likes it or not, I think that a lot of dealers in the same position are still reeling at the prospect of a huge monetary loss, but thats the chance you take when in this collecting business, especially high end items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Della Valle Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 26 minutes ago, Davejb said: Dagodave, if you have a written guarantee then he must abide with it, there is now documented proof that this Champagne Decal is a fake, and seeing its all over the collecting internet theres very little that anyone can say. However if it was a verbal guarantee then thats a little harder to get your money back, but it could still form a verbal contract and he knows full well that you could sue him. You paid him X amount of money in good faith and I daresay he sold it in the same vain but its now proved to be a fake decal , he is legally and morally obliged to refund your money and you return the helmet whether he likes it or not, I think that a lot of dealers in the same position are still reeling at the prospect of a huge monetary loss, but thats the chance you take when in this collecting business, especially high end items @Davejb...that makes a LOT OF SENSE,my friend!I can imagine all those "reputable sellers" knocking at friends' doors to ask for loans!Let's hope to see them putting their collections/listings for sale at a fraction of the prices to refund the buyers even if,truth be told,i wouldn't hold my breath! You see,let's pretend for a second that I'd sell you a fake helmet from Missouri..are you sure you'd be able to get your money back on the basis of an aleatory explanation?How about no!I'd thumb my nose at you and make a big laugh!OK,you could take the first plane and pay me a visit but that would be the equivalent of what they call "premeditated assault" here in Zee Peeple's Demokratik Repvblik of Banitaly! In my HUMBLE opinion many a collector will be VERY,VERY sorry and have to live with "champignon" decals! BTW...Italian bubblies are much better that cham-pain and so are a few Austrian sparkling white wines..and they're much more lighter in colour! Cheers Manu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davejb Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Yes Champagne can be vastly over rated, the best I had was at Royal Ascot and it was,nt a Bollinger either but something much later and with the right amount of clarity and fizz and taste, trouble was after 5 bottles of it I did,nt much care if I was drinking Cream Soda,but the hangover was much worse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Della Valle Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 10 minutes ago, Davejb said: Yes Champagne can be vastly over rated, the best I had was at Royal Ascot and it was,nt a Bollinger either but something much later and with the right amount of clarity and fizz and taste, trouble was after 5 bottles of it I did,nt much care if I was drinking Cream Soda,but the hangover was much worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigadier Mike Charlie November Posted July 17, 2016 Brigadier Share Posted July 17, 2016 Actually I don't know why we're scared to say names. Kelly Hicks is the author of SS Steel and he has authenticated these decals, sold COA's for them, and sold them on his site. Eric Dolin has been found out faking cammos, common knowledge amongst helmet collectors and the forums. Apparently he's the guy who masked and painted these champagne decals. He's a spray painter by trade. Now, if you're going to get these into the market, you need a supply of non decalled M42's etc. Then you need them worked on, then you need to feed them into the dealer network, story is via fake vets at shows, then you need authentication. Maybe in a book? This is a big bucks scam here, not pocket money. It doesn't take much to work out the scale of this... My gut feeling, any dealer who's sold one with a lifetime guarantee will never admit they're fake, offer a goodwill gesture of part refund, cash or credit, but with a confidentiality clause. I'm pretty sure this has happened on a few cases already... I'm not saying Hicks is in on it, he could have been conned himself. However, a scam of this scale needs a large crew... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagodave Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Thanks Dave and everyone I will make one more effort to let him honor his promise. This week I'll contact him. I don't like to smear a name unless all options are off the table. So in regards to this if he doesn't honor the deal I will most definitely post his name and go foward with a lawyer. I have a written guarantee and all the pages from his site copied at the time of purchase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davejb Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 A WRITTEN GUARANTEE, thats a no brainer for him, any court wherever you are will come down on the side of the plaintiff , Dont forget to gather as much info, documentation, quotes and photographic evidence as possible, the courts will need all this. This will be a new area for Judges to sit and make decisions on, when in truth ,because of the huge monetary outlay, it should be treated as any other law suit . If possible try and contact the author of this debunked decal Doug Bueler , He is a well known SS helmet collector and is a Canadian, and lives there so he,s on your side of the pond. See if he would be willing to supply a statement as to his findings 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagodave Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Davejb said: A WRITTEN GUARANTEE, thats a no brainer for him, any court wherever you are will come down on the side of the plaintiff , Dont forget to gather as much info, documentation, quotes and photographic evidence as possible, the courts will need all this. This will be a new area for Judges to sit and make decisions on, when in truth ,because of the huge monetary outlay, it should be treated as any other law suit . If possible try and contact the author of this debunked decal Doug Bueler , He is a well known SS helmet collector and is a Canadian, and lives there so he,s on your side of the pond. See if he would be willing to supply a statement as to his findings Thank you very much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Della Valle Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) As I've already said,I wouldn't hold my breath unless you don't live Steside!Dagodave may stand a chance but the others...they'd better be Saudi Princes or friends with a Mafia Padrino else............... Edited July 17, 2016 by Manu Della Valle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagodave Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I hope everyone gets their money back what a shame. I have to state I'm retired from the military but I still work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Della Valle Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) A "dumbestion"...why on earth they decided to make Champagne decals?Why "Champagne"?Weren't "ordinary SS decals enough?I mean...I once met in Nice a guy who knew a crook who fooled a VERY ADVANCED collector with a "chicken wire" and he even explained me how he made such a convincing helmet and the "ingredients" and method of artificial ageing definitely weren't hi-tech even if fakers were already going to extremes to burn collectors!I surely won't disclose them to avoid crooks from adding tips they may not be aware of but suffice to say that he got hold of period chicken wire,period thick wire to form a holder for the wire and a few ounces of a certain fertilizer to age the "cuts".The rust on the outer shell had a "60 years look" to it and an ordinary M35 was turned into a "Normandy chicken camo" in a weekend! That said,a good painter,a good forger and a little "know how" would have played a bigger havoc within the helmet collectors' community flooding the market with WSS camos than inventing this "Champagne" thing! Cheers Manu P.S.; the French guy had to explain a thing or three to the Police a few years later and served a few years picking up soap bars in a jail! P.P.S.;since "period "chicken wire isn't that easy to come by the crook discovered an easy way to turn a 30/40 yo piece of said wire into a 60/70yo one ! Edited July 17, 2016 by Manu Della Valle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigadier Mike Charlie November Posted July 17, 2016 Brigadier Share Posted July 17, 2016 The current school of thought is that's just his ageing wash. The same guy is responsible for a lot of painted cammos as well. Believe me, this is big. The sham pain Lids were mega money. Some even added to M35 DD's. When you add in the cammos he's done since the 70's apparently, it's scary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manu Della Valle Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, Mike Charlie November said: The current school of thought is that's just his ageing wash. The same guy is responsible for a lot of painted cammos as well. Believe me, this is big. The sham pain Lids were mega money. Some even added to M35 DD's. When you add in the cammos he's done since the 70's apparently, it's scary... DEFINITELY SCARY if you ask me!I repeat,I'm MORE THAN HAPPY with my four/five humble camos and the "ordinary" pots I've found along the years! Cheers Manu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major General Bil4338 Posted July 17, 2016 Major General Share Posted July 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Mike Charlie November said: Actually I don't know why we're scared to say names. Kelly Hicks is the author of SS Steel and he has authenticated these decals, sold COA's for them, and sold them on his site. Eric Dolin has been found out faking cammos, common knowledge amongst helmet collectors and the forums. Apparently he's the guy who masked and painted these champagne decals. He's a spray painter by trade. Now, if you're going to get these into the market, you need a supply of non decalled M42's etc. Then you need them worked on, then you need to feed them into the dealer network, story is via fake vets at shows, then you need authentication. Maybe in a book? This is a big bucks scam here, not pocket money. It doesn't take much to work out the scale of this... My gut feeling, any dealer who's sold one with a lifetime guarantee will never admit they're fake, offer a goodwill gesture of part refund, cash or credit, but with a confidentiality clause. I'm pretty sure this has happened on a few cases already... I'm not saying Hicks is in on it, he could have been conned himself. However, a scam of this scale needs a large crew... Eric James Dolin....currently punting refurbished SS helmets @ $350 on German Helmets of the Second World War site on FB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davejb Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I learnt , through experimentation, many years ago how to age, paint and distress helmets, but i did this only on repros,because we could,nt afford to go out a just buy an original, the era of helmets being two a penny and plentiful was long gone in the 70s, but I would,nt even consider faking a helmet for profit, Like a lot of us I,ve been burnt on items, its not pleasant nor helps to encourage a persons faith in another, they are a scourge in the collecting community and should face jail time, in a lot of cases its grand theft re the amounts of money involved 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Field Marshall Lenny Posted July 18, 2016 Author Field Marshall Share Posted July 18, 2016 He's apparently done doughboys as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigadier Mike Charlie November Posted July 18, 2016 Brigadier Share Posted July 18, 2016 Have a look at Eric's site, all original, apparently... ? http://germanhelmetcollectors.com/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davejb Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I dont see what his sexual orientation has to do with it, just because he has helmets on the brain!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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