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Funksammler

Panzer radio and intercom setup

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Funksammler
Moderator

My Fu2/5 setup was quite messy, so I decided I build a few display boards to demo the Panzer radio setup for an impending exhibition. Makes it a bit easier to transport, set up and demonstrate. Unfortunately not a lot to hear on 10m VHF at the moment but at least I can demonstrate the intercom. Only missing the "Scheifringübertrager"...

regards,

Funksammler

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kriegsfunker

Great job FS.   Looks like you have all the pieces, and created a nice display.  This looks like the Panther layout.  Do you have the antenna matching boxes also?

Are you plugging the speaker into the Bosch receptacle?

Edited by kriegsfunker

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Funksammler
Moderator

Only the "Schleifringübertrager" is missing unfortunately. It will eventually evolve into a full Panther A setup. I have a complete and original "Antennekabel p", it is rather set in its shape after being coiled up for 75+ years and I have some worries about damaging it by uncoiling it. The late war coax cable has a soft silicon type insulation which can short out if not handled carefully....

regards,

Funksammler

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kriegsfunker

Very nice setup.   The slip ring was a rarety I only saw once at the Littlefield collection.   He was able to procure one in its original box.   I'm sure no one bothered to remove them from scrap tanks after the war, and they were smelted together with the rest of the tank.  Here are the pics I took from the one installed in that Panther:

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Funksammler
Moderator

Yep, full working order!

regards,

Funksammler

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LA6NCA

I'm working on a new video about Panzer radios.
I am very impressed with Funksamler's panzer radios.
I see the use of throat microphones.
The ones I have have three contact pins.
Are these to be used for 10W.S.c?
I also see that there is no Rx / Tx function from the operator seats.
Rx / Tx had to be done on the transmitter.
Does that make sense?
Surely the Panzer commander should be able to use the radio?
How was this done in practice?

LA6NCA

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Funksammler
Moderator
13 hours ago, LA6NCA said:

I'm working on a new video about Panzer radios.
I am very impressed with Funksamler's panzer radios.
I see the use of throat microphones.
The ones I have have three contact pins.
Are these to be used for 10W.S.c?
I also see that there is no Rx / Tx function from the operator seats.
Rx / Tx had to be done on the transmitter.
Does that make sense?
Surely the Panzer commander should be able to use the radio?
How was this done in practice?

LA6NCA

Both the Kmf.a (two pin) and Kmf.b (three pin) microphones were used in the Panzer's intercom system. Only the Funker and the commander used the three pin Kmf.b, the switch of which operated a relay in the Kasten.Pz.nr.20 intercom amplifier to switch their microphones from the intercom to the radio system. The Funker still had to operate the transmitter and switch it to "Tf" to allow the commander to speak over the radio.

regards,

Funksammler

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LA6NCA

Thanks for the nice answer.
In the new video I want to show how the sound sounds.
How to hear the sound of the throat microphone and modulator in the receiver.
Can I connect the microphone directly to the transmitter, or do I need to have an amplifier in between?

I expect Funker learned the technique of switching the Rx / Tx switch quickly when Panzer commander was going out on the radio.

I've worked in a Leopard battalion with radio in the 70's. Everything was like the German from WW2.
The Norwegian panzer divisions were based on WW2 German knowledge. Also the radio section. And of course the panzers.

Do you have any suggestions for what to show in the video?

LA6NCA

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Funksammler
Moderator

Yes you can use a 2 pin Kmf.a directly on the transmitter. The "Gelbstrich" geräte (the Ukw.E.e's and 10 W.S.c's with a yellow stripe on it) have an internal intercom system anyway, so you will hear voice feedback via the receiver as long as the transmitter is on standby or on Tf. (you will have to connect the cable between the z.Sender and z.Empf. contacts for this to work). It is this internal radio intercom that is used between the commander and the Funker when they are both switched to the radio, the other crewmembers keep using the separated intercom circuit in the Kasten.Pz.nr.20. So you don't even have to transmit to record the sound from the throat microphone, you can record it directly from the headphone socket of the receiver.

The switching of the Kasten.Pz.nr.20 is far from intuitive, things are not helped by the fact that there are two versions. A modified Kasten.Pz.nr.20 marked with a red stripe was introduced about 1943, this has a slightly different switching logic from the earlier version. So the switching described in popular documents like the "Tigerfibel" is actually incorrect if you try it on a late war intercom system!

regards,

Funksammler

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dufleuve

Hello folks,
I have a LSG(Fu)b connected to the UKWEe receiver. One can hear all the transmissions voice and morse from the 10WSc.

Cheers

 

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dufleuve

Hello Folks,

Sounds from my STUG Fu5 display.
Made with my mobile, so not the best quality, but you realize the noise generated by two umformers and vibrator from LSG(Fu)b.
The LSG(Fu)b covers the noises quite effectively when sending morse.

Cheers

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dufleuve

By the way,

I'm looking for a Panzerkasten 2b, the small one to connect the sender to the antenna coax.

Thanks

 

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dufleuve

Hello folks,

I did some test of using the Mikrofon output of the panzerkasten 24 to the 10WSc, but I only get a "brumm ton" in the receiver. Same if trying with Pzk20.
Both panzerkasten work fine in intercom mode. I made sure that the ground is not crossed over in the connections.
If I connect a Mikrofon directly on the 10 WSc, works fine with the receiver.
 

Could it be that the Pzk is sending a stronger current and some dampening circuit is missing/defective in the 10 WSc ?
I had to restore a bunch of connections in that sender.
Any idea where I should look ?

Thanks

 

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Funksammler
Moderator
4 hours ago, dufleuve said:

Hello folks,

I did some test of using the Mikrofon output of the panzerkasten 24 to the 10WSc, but I only get a "brumm ton" in the receiver. Same if trying with Pzk20.
Both panzerkasten work fine in intercom mode. I made sure that the ground is not crossed over in the connections.
If I connect a Mikrofon directly on the 10 WSc, works fine with the receiver.
 

Could it be that the Pzk is sending a stronger current and some dampening circuit is missing/defective in the 10 WSc ?
I had to restore a bunch of connections in that sender.
Any idea where I should look ?

Thanks

 

Probably the switches in the Kasten. Pz.... Can you measure directly between the microphone input and the output to the transmitter on the Kasten.Pz?

regards,

Funksammler

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dufleuve

Well,

As I noticed a kind of power spike on the 10WSc when switching the mike on, I swapped the EUa and U10a power supplies. 
And now, it works... Using the mike from Pzk24 through Pzk22b to 10WSc is ok. Good sound on the LSG(Fu)b.
I tried both the Kmfb and the hand held mikes.

Now, why would the uformers play a role in this, I have no clue.

Remco, if you could use your ET Peilgerät 😄 ....

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Funksammler
Moderator
18 hours ago, dufleuve said:

Well,

As I noticed a kind of power spike on the 10WSc when switching the mike on, I swapped the EUa and U10a power supplies. 
And now, it works... Using the mike from Pzk24 through Pzk22b to 10WSc is ok. Good sound on the LSG(Fu)b.
I tried both the Kmfb and the hand held mikes.

Now, why would the uformers play a role in this, I have no clue.

Remco, if you could use your ET Peilgerät 😄 ....

Were you powering the Kasten.Pz. from the U10?

 

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dufleuve

Of course not. I doubt the Pzk24 would survive 350v.

But strangely enough, when switching on the mike from the pzk24, I could hear the U10a running harder and the scale lamp burned brighter.
I then swapped both umformers and it solved the issue. Could the EUa been "leaking" some current ????
 

Side question: did you ever tried a U10b ? Mine is doing a hell of background noise. I checked the condensators, but they all are within tolerance.
But I lack one self in the 12v input. No idea what type it should be.

Thanks

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tornfuté

Hello did you use a 12v battery for powering ? Or a psu giving 12v

in this case it will be interesting to measure the  ripple , you can put a meter

and select Vrms  and see if the input voltage is correct , same on 130 V

or 350v  just an idea 

pierre

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Funksammler
Moderator

A bit weird, the audio circuits are all low voltage. The only thing I can imagine that you have a leaking HV capacitor in one of the umformers causing a different earth level between the transmitter and receiver. This would normally be equalised by the connections via the equipment housing and the racks to the steelwork of the vehicle but I can't recognize on your movie clip if you have bonded it properly. Make sure that the springs in the mounting frame and the bonding strips of the transmitter and receiver housing are clean and make proper contact. Also make sure that all the morning frames are all  bonded via the supports.

regards,

Funksammler

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dufleuve

Hello FS,

As my display is all wood, I linked all grounds Pzk, umformers frames , sender and receiver frame, together. Grounding loops in place on frames. Null resistance between all components.

So I assume the EUa I replaced needs some attention. Probably the big block condensation needs checking.

Thanks for the input.

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